Thursday, March 21, 2013

Letter to NY DOJ From NY Assemblyman Bill Nojay

March 21, 2013

 Michael C. Green
Executive Deputy Commissioner
Division of Criminal Justice Services

Alfred E. Smith Building
80 South Swan St.
Albany, New York 12210

Dear Mike:

I am writing to request that the Division of Criminal Justice Services immediately terminate the newly revised and expanded informant program known as the “Gun Tip Line”.  The program has chilling implications and should have no place in a free society which has, for over 230 years, protected ordinary citizens from invasions of their privacy and unreasonable search and seizure by agents of government.  

The original 2012 tip program was part of a modest, $2 million initiative to develop community specific, anti-gun violence strategies in only six (6) violence-plagued cities in the State.  The Governor’s press release of the new initiative dated February 18, 2012 made clear the initiative was “part of the Governor’s larger urban agenda to aggressively support the implementation of community-based violence reduction strategies involving both the police and the communities”.  The initiative was limited to Newburgh, Albany, Schenectady, Brownsville, the Bronx, and Manhattan, cities “that are most impacted by gun violence.”

Your office has now used the 2012 program to launch a radically expanded, statewide program to be run by the State Police which does not target gun violence at all – it appears solely directed at enforcing the so-called SAFE Act, which has become a national symbol for what happens when bad policy meets bad drafting passed under a false “emergency” in the dark of night by a Legislature that did not bother to read the bill before they voted on it.

The SAFE Act creates a new criminal class of hundreds of thousands of otherwise law abiding citizens who are not expected to comply with its unreasonable and oppressive terms.  The expanded Gun Tip Line makes a bad law worse by using snitches (motivated by $500 cash per report) as its enforcement tool.   

By employing a check process whereby the State Police effectively oversee local law enforcement’s follow-up on every tip, you are using the State Police in a manner which is offensive to the independence of local law enforcement officers.  Our system of government works due to the checks and balances incumbent with tiers of law enforcement acting independently.  The Administration’s new program serves to intimidate local officers into complying with the Governor’s political agenda. 

There should be no place in the Empire State for a massive informant program targeting ordinary citizens not engaged in violent crime.  I am not aware of any similar program implemented anywhere in the United States, and thankfully so.  Moreover, despite widespread incidents of violent crime in many urban neighborhoods, including rampant violence and the virtual takeover of buildings and city blocks by drug gangs operating in many of our cities, the State has not employed $500 rewards or instituted any similar programs targeting violent offenders.

 History is filled with the tragedies of governments which set neighbor against neighbor.  There is nothing good that can come of this. 

I urge you to step back from this ill-advised path and work to make New York safer using legitimate law enforcement techniques which respect the Constitutional protections that have made America great and the Empire State a leader in protecting its citizens’ civil liberties. 


                                                                     Bill Nojay




Monday, March 18, 2013

SCOPE Legislative Report - 2013 Firearms Bills Introduced

SCOPE Legislative Report - 2013 Firearms Bills Introduced

Search Results Count = 8

Run Date: 03/17/13 11:35 PM

Bill No.
A5951 Corwin -- Authorizes a person to pass his or her guns to an immediate family member through his or her estate
No same as
Last Act: 03/11/13 referred to codes
A5955 Katz -- Relates to repealing the New York SAFE Act of 2013
No same as
Last Act: 03/11/13 referred to codes
A6088 Rosenthal (MS) -- Prohibits entry to gun shows to anyone under twelve years of age
No same as
Last Act: 03/14/13 referred to economic development
A6094 Stec -- Relates to gun control, repealer
Same as S 3948 MARCHIONE
Last Act: 03/14/13 referred to codes
Comment: Repeals SAFE Act.
A6134 Ramos -- Provides for the sale, use and storage of nitric acid
Same as S 2884 LAVALLE
Last Act: 03/15/13 referred to economic development
Comment: Any discussion of smokeless powder manufacture would be a felony.
S4039A ADAMS -- Exempts off-duty police officers and peace officers and retired police officers and peace officers from provisions pertaining to large capacity ammunition feeding devices
No same as
03/11/13 PRINT NUMBER 4039A
S4175 GOLDEN -- Includes possession of armor piercing, frangible or devastator ammunition as criminal possession of a weapon
No same as
Last Act: 03/12/13 REFERRED TO CODES
Pos: Oppose POSITION PAPER : 2012 POSITION 2012 SESSION: S2146
Comment: Badly flawed, technically incorrect, totally unecessary
S4256 BOYLE -- Relates to certain exemptions for licensed gunsmiths, manufacturers and dealers employed in the fulfillment of government, law enforcement, or other state and municipal contracts
No same as
Last Act: 03/15/13 REFERRED TO CODES
Comment: SAFE Act fix for businesses dealing with firearms, etc.

FYI: I oppose any attempt to exclude law enforcement and or retired law enforcement from restrictions place upon regular non government citizens of New York. What I'm stating is why does Law enforcement working or retired get a free pass to posess and carry any firearm they desire?  Just what we need is a bunch of over the hill cops running aroud with more than 7 rounds locked and loaded. For what purpose? Another ego trip to appease the Law Enforcement community. This divides the citizens and firearms owners who pay taxes to be subjected to unfair regulations.

Friday, March 15, 2013

Lee Pro 1000 $223.00 plus shipping

Shameless sales spam from BPBRS:

I have due in this week 3/15/2013

2 Lee Challenger breech lock press's ($93.00 each~MSRP is $150.00);and one Lee Pro-1000 357 mag press.

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Lee Pro 1000 progressive 3-hole reloading kit for 357 Magnum. Includes press, dies (full length size, powder through expanding and bullet seating dies), 3-hole turret, #1 shell plate, Pro Auto-Disk powder measure, large case feeder and priming system.

This press only accepts the 3 hole turret.

Lee Pro 1000 $223.00 plus shipping.  MSRP is $254.00

2 Lee Challenger breech lock press's include breech lock bushing as per Mfg details.

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Also Sierra 44ca 210 and 240 gr bullets 100 per box $33.00 to $36.00 per box.

Breech lock:
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Thursday, March 14, 2013

GOP Ready To Cave On Gun Control

 A friend forwarded this email to me and I felt it shows a better opinion of where the long time firearms owners stand. VerSus the BS polls we keep reading about. As far as my thoughts, the GOP is dead to me. I don't ever remember being a registered R not in the last 30 odd years anyway. I registered as an conservative only because we don't have a patriot party.  The NY conservative party has left me/us hanging all on one issue which is abortion. NY lost 3 seats in Nov. 2012 elction cycle. We all know who dropped the soap on those.
Anyway read on.
Please visit my auctions listed under BPBRS. Thanks

GOP Ready To Cave On Gun Control

BY Herschel Smith
[] 13 hours, 9 minutes ago

Ammoland has two extremely depressing reports. We already knew that
Eric Cantor and Paul Ryan were pretend conservatives with plans to cave on universal background checks. This first report makes it sound even worse.

[The] Republican Majority Leader is leading the charge to cut a deal with President Obama.

The following are just some of the threats to innocent school children and our God-given 2nd Amendment liberties that Republicans are about to shove down our throats:

1.The NRA is cutting backroom deals to centralize gun owner data collection into the Obama/Holder massive government data base.

A centralized system is less costly to fight and far more lucrative for the NRA to appear to be “fixing“.

Like all establishment political lobbies the key to their job security is assisting in making problems they end up being called upon to “fix“.

2. Republican Majority Leader Eric Cantor is leading the charge to give Obama and Holder what they want in exchange for appearing to be “fixing” the problem of innocent children being butchered in our public and private schools.

3. Newly appointed Republican Judiciary Chairman, Bob Goodlatte R-VA 6th District, is providing political cover for the sneaky back room gun control deals and gun grabbing sell outs that his political masters - – John Boehner and Eric Cantor – - are cutting with Obama and his corrupt Attorney General, Eric Holder.

Political insiders have confirmed to me, that Goodlatte earned his brand new chairmanship by ignoring the constitutional demands and grievances of every Republican Unit Chairman in his own 6th district.

And for the second report.
You might think that with Republicans in control of the US House of Representatives there would be no way ANY gun control legislation could reach the floor.

But sadly we are already beginning to see so-called “conservative champions” folding to pressure from the anti-gun media to sell-out gun owners.

Former Vice Presidential candidate, Congressman Paul Ryan, has stated that he would support legislation that bans private sales at gun shows.

In the House, Majority Leader Eric Cantor, along with the help of Rep. Scott Rigell (VA), Patrick Meehan (PA) and others, have stated openly that they will work together with anti-gun Democrats from Maryland and New York to tighten restrictions on private firearms sales and expand background checks.

Possibly even more upsetting has been Senator Tom Coburn’s willingness to work alongside anti-gunner Chuck Schumer (NY) to propose “bi-partisan” anti-gun legislation in the Senate.

Make no mistake, so-called “expansion” of background checks is little more than a blatant attempt by anti-gunners to register all firearms and gun owners in America.

That is why Representatives Steve Stockman (TX-36) and Paul Broun (GA-10) have drafted a letter to Speaker Boehner and the Republican leadership urging them to require the support of the majority of Republican members in the House before bringing any anti-gun bills to the floor.

This so-called “Hastert Rule” would mean that 117 Republicans would have to support a particular bill before it had any chance of getting a floor vote, not just the support of the anti-gun elitist in leadership.

Such political ploys would be unnecessary if the GOP weren’t filled with such weasels. I cannot vouch for the accuracy of these reports, but I have followed Cantor and Ryan for a while now on firearms freedoms and gun rights, and it doesn’t surprise me in the least.

It’s fascinating that the GOP leadership would be willing to sacrifice their careers on the altar of political correctness. And it will cost them their careers. I don’t know how else to say it other than to keep repeating myself. The gun owners who recently waited in lines for three or more hours to pay exorbitant prices for guns were not repeat buyers (long time gun owners like me already had most of the firearms we wanted and so we are purchasing ammunition now). They were first time buyers.

I’ve watched them at the ranges. I have overheard their conversations, I have watched them at the gun stores and
gun shows. I have heard their relatively ignorant questions (not ignorant because they’re stupid, but because they’re in the process of learning). They are not us. We already have guns. These are new gun owners. The polls they are trotting out to show the number of gun owners decreasing are all lies.

I don’t know whether the questions aren’t being honestly answered or what other source there could be for the error. But the polls are in error.
Don’t believe them. And as for older gun owners like me, and even the newer gun owners like I have monitored for the past half year, we have made it clear with our voices and wallets. No new gun laws. None. Period. Not one more inch. Not one.

Is this so hard to understand? Note to legislators. Tread carefully. Don’t cross lines from which there is no return.
Firearms ,Gun Control, Guns, Politics

Trackbacks & Pingbacks


  1. On March 11, 2013 at 10:48 pm, Orion said: You seriously think there is some definable difference between the two factions of the criminal cartel that runs this country?
  2. I mean, really – you actually believe that even ONE of those folks in DC somehow, in some portion of their being, has YOUR interests at heart, or that of the country as a whole (other than as a cash cow for themselves)??
  3. I’m sorry – I find that funny.
  4. Orion
  5. On March 11, 2013 at 11:13 pm, Vickie said: I learned last year not to believe the polls. By the way, I’m a first time gun owner (within last few months) and so is my daughter and my son. I took a CCW class, with 50 others in the class. Most of them appeared to be first time owners too.
  6. On March 11, 2013 at 11:16 pm, J Smith said: Now we see what all that ammunition and MRAPs are for at Homeland security. Pretty handy things to have if you want to disarm a nation. Gun registration is the first step that lets you know where they are.
  7. On March 11, 2013 at 11:19 pm, Rob Crawford said: Polls are lies. That is their job ­ to convince people of a lie by claiming everyone else believes it. They are the bandwagon fallacy dressed up in a lab coat and armed with a calculator ­ but they are still a fallacy.
  8. On March 11, 2013 at 11:28 pm, Henry said: As a matter of fact, I just finished writing emails to McCain and Flake telling them that they had better get the message across to the GOP that this is their last chance. If they screw this up, I’m voting Libertarian or Tea Party in the future. To hell with the Republican party. What good have they done me?
  9. On March 11, 2013 at 11:38 pm, John Smith said: If anything comes out of the house related to gun control, I’m going full on libtard from now on. I’ll be supporting Democrats with my money and my time for rest of my days. Can we destroy what’s left of this country? Yes we can.
  10. I dare them.
  11. On March 12, 2013 at 12:22 am, DrBayattheMoon said: Sorry John…As an Oathkeeper, I’m going the other way. No man or woman, R or D, has the power to limit or eliminate my God given Rights as enumerated in the bill of Rights. Any plan to require registration will meet non-compliance. They will create tens of thousands of felons and then we may as well have the “War of Liberal Aggression”. We’re ready…I don’t think they are. III/0317
  12. On March 12, 2013 at 12:31 am, Briggsy said: Golly you guys. You act like the American Civil War never happened. You know? The one for which men took up arms to resist the “tyranny” of the abolition of slavery? A Covenant of Appomattox has been in place ever since, rendering the Second Amendment quite entirely moot. There can be no such thing as a right of access to the means of convenient murder, depriving people of all their genuine rights at the whim of a shooter.
  13. On March 12, 2013 at 12:34 am, Wyatt Wingfoot said: The G.O.P. = Grovelling Old Pussies.
  14. On March 12, 2013 at 12:42 am, Kirk Parker said: Briggsy,
  15. One more time, in English this time, please?
  16. On March 12, 2013 at 12:45 am, Dale Franks said: They’re not going to “cross lines from which there is no return”, because there is no such line. People will grumble, and do nothing. No one is going to give up their cushy American life to run around in the hills with a rifle raising an army. People will complain…and comply.
  17. Whatever the Founders had that made them start an armed rebellion against relatively trivial parliamentary taxation is gone now.
  18. On March 12, 2013 at 12:48 am, haiku guy said: This here is the line If Republicans cross it, They are dead to me

  19. On March 12, 2013 at 1:39 am, Balthar said: Google “Covenant of Appomattox” (with quotation marks). Forty (40) results. Hardly a key term in American History.
  20. Of the 40 mentions, 36 or so appear to be by Briggsy (under various names, including one David Briggs). The other few (including the first link), come from a 1919 book entitled “Memorials of Dixieland”. The passage in question is… rather different than any sentiment Briggsy has espoused:
  21. Fighting for principle is a virtually holy calling, and the South did not fight the Civil War to perpetuate slavery, but to preserve the Constitutional “birthright of self-government and home rule!”
  22. One may not agree with the viewpoint of this book, but it is considerably more intellectually and historically honest than anything Mr. Briggs is spamming across the ‘net.
  23. On March 12, 2013 at 3:01 am, Scott M said: The GOP should already be politically dead to all conservatives, not just become politically dead IF (pronounced ‘when’) they sell out on gun laws. Just a few week after ObamaCare was rammed down the throats of US House which caused the GOP to regain the majority in the House, John Boehner and David Drier conspired to defeat Cong Steve King’s “not one dollar nor one Federal employee shall be used to implement ObamaCare” amendment in the GOP controlled House Rules Committee. Let me repeat that. The GOP had a majority of votes in the House Riles Committee and a majority on the House floor and the Speaker and Chairman of House Rules Committee would not allow CONSIDERATION of an amendment which would block all of ObamCare.
  24. John Boehner and the other RINOS know how to play hardball, they do it routinely to thwart Conservatives. And these people would not even risk a vote which could have overturned ObamaCare before one dollar was spent to implement it.
  25. I beg all who read this that keep thinking “IF the GOP crosses a line then I will do something about it” to recognize the RINO-led GOP routinely crosses red lines and routinely helps the commielibs to advance socialism. Stop waiting for some future sellout before you act and recognize they are already worthy of your action to replace them. Stop waiting for something else to happen and implement the action you will do if they go too far. They already have gone too far and they are immune from all of the complaints and analysis from Conservative Talk Radio. The RINO-led GOP keeps selling us out because they receive nothing but our talk in response to their actions.
  26. On March 12, 2013 at 4:03 am, Kirk Parker said: Balthar: Ah, DNFTT. Mea culpa.
  27. On March 12, 2013 at 5:04 am, jeff said: Yep. First time gun owner here. Bought a 22 rifle in January to learn on. There is fear in the air.
  28. On March 12, 2013 at 5:08 am, stargazer said: Time to make our peace with God. There is no more making peace with any political party. There is no truth to be heard from any political ‘leadership.’ They are only the locusts of old biblical Egypt. A plague of flies. They are God’s judgment on America.
  29. And, for those of you not of a spiritual nature, perhaps this is fitting: Everything that has a beginning has an ending. Make your peace with that and all will be well. – The Buddha

  30. On March 12, 2013 at 5:33 am, egoist said: Meanwhile, these wizards (in congress that actually spend the money) need 16,700 x 1,000,000 dollars just to elevate the treasury to the status of flat broke. Before they start destroying vestiges of inherited brilliance from the generations prior to their arrival, you’d think they’d try to fix some of the stuff they have already ruined in their own lifetime.
  31. On March 12, 2013 at 7:37 am, Joe Blough said: Check your math, egoist. You’re off by a factor of 1000, that’s by 1000x. Notwithstanding the math mistake, the real obligations are way up toward 200 trillion dollars ($200,000,000,000,000), meaning the amount of money that could cover the promises implied in pension plans, SS, Medicair/aid and all that. What that means is ~ 17 trillion bucks would get us back to flat broke, but it’d take ~ 10 x that much money to be truly solvent, meaning Fedzilla could cover the ponzi schemes it has set up under taxpayers’ approval.
  32. As to the Capt’n's original point, what Orion said. Not 5 % of these people have any intention of helping you get any freedoms back, so it’s not going to happen peacefully.
  33. On March 12, 2013 at 7:45 am, W_B said: If they cave on this last election is the last Republicans I will vote for and I will never, ever vote for a Democrat. I’ve voted R since Nixon but this will be the last straw for me.
  34. On March 12, 2013 at 8:16 am, Mannie said: Not voting for them is not enough. They should be hounded out of office. It’s a shame it’s illegal to hang them from lampposts.
  35. On March 12, 2013 at 8:48 am, Gayle said: GUYS! You’re looking in the wrong spot. Two new state houses (UT and ID) voted to nullify unconstitutional federal gun laws. It’s happening all across the country.
  36. DC is DEAD. Get involved in your state’s politics. Help your state to JUST SAY NO.

  38. On March 12, 2013 at 9:06 am, TheFaz said: I love all the hysterics over a couple of stories with no verifiable sources. This sounds like a GOA member or one of the other more stringent groups (JPFO, etc) who is pushing the “NRA sellout” meme that they’ve used in the past. So far I’ve seen no indication of a sellout by any of the gun groups, with the exception of one of the attorneys in the Heller case, who ironically were idolized by the NRA-haters for his very laudable efforts in the case and has now come out in favor of assault weapons bans and other restrictions.
  39. Second topic, ancedote does not equal evidence when it comes to new gun owners. If there were a million new firearms owners (and there may have been) in the recent rush after Newtown, that would increase the percentage of gun owners in this country by less than one percent. We can ignore these statistics showing a long-term downward trend or we can accept there may be some basis to them and work to reverse the trend. Honestly given the 30+ year attack on firearms and stigmatization of guns and gun owners, is it that surprising the propaganda campaign may have had an impact? It’s a no-lose proposition to reach out and add new people/groups to our cause.

  40. On March 12, 2013 at 9:17 am, punditius said: I don’t own a gun. I have no present need for a gun. I have no particular interest in owning a gun.
  41. But I understand that private ownership of guns is one of the things that stands between us and a police state.
  42. I’m not talking about a full-fledged storm troopers kind of thing. What I mean is more low level. Right now, the possibility that the occupants of a house may have a gun is something that keeps the police from doing what they are already doing on the streets – stopping, questioning, frisking anyone who gets their attention, or just to demonstrate their authority.
  43. Our federal government has gotten too heavily armed on the domestic side. DHS wants to extend its police authority to busses and trains. Customs asserts that it can stop suspected illegals and search them and their possessions without a warrant, miles and miles from any border. The Department of Education and other non-police agencies are reported to have SWAT teams.
  44. In short, the federal government is arming itself in a domestic fashion, not one geared at fighting any foreign enemy. This needs to be stopped, but in the meanwhile, the fact of widespread private gun ownership will at least give the agents of this “soft” police state we are already living in some pause.
  45. At some point, it might become a necessity, or even a duty, for people like me to own a gun. But for the moment, I’m happy that there are a lot of people who want to own them, and do. In the meanwhile, when & if the Republicans cave on this issue, I’ll do what I can to relieve them of major party status.
  46. On March 12, 2013 at 9:39 am, Herschel Smith said: punditius,
  47. If you have loved ones at home, or even if you’re alone and need defending, it’s your duty to provide for your self defense anyway.


  49. Gayle,
  50. If the states enforce a no-enforcement of all upcoming federal laws, from bans on magazines to bans on guns, to bans on universal background checks and everything else coming, then so be it. That includes making state LEOs arrest and imprison federal agents attempting to enforce federal laws. If this doesn’t happen, then the states are as culpable as the communists inside the beltway.
  51. On March 12, 2013 at 10:32 am, Oldfart said: Folks, what got us to this point? That’s right, it was voting. How long did it take us to get to here? Anyone? Right again – over two hundred years. Now which of you is willing to wait another two hundred years to see things straightened out? No one? I know it’s now accepted history that the Civil War was fought over slavery but the real reason was the fact that the northern ststes were ripping off the south in trade issues so the South exercised their supposed right to secede – just like the original 13 colonies did with Great Britain. Lincold didn’t much like that idea so he trotted out the army to enforce his views. Now we “gunnies” – scattered all over the country – want to “secede” in our own way and the government – regardless of who is in the oval office – won’t much like that. So they’re trotting out the army. Only now we have a pesky law in place called “Posse Comitatus” that makes it more difficult for them. So they’ve come up with a civilian version of the army that is just as well armed and financed as the regular army. We scattered “gunnies” have to find some way to either bluff that army and the government agencies behind it into standing down or we’ll have to defeat it militarily. Notice I didn’t say anything about voting them out. We’re not going to vote ourselves out of this mess. Get used to that idea.

  52. On March 12, 2013 at 10:36 am, Michael Hill said: Politics as usual will not hold the answer for this problem. We Southerners have an answer here:
  53. On March 12, 2013 at 10:42 am, Bill Harzia said: Tell me again why I gave money to the NRA all these years?
  54. On March 12, 2013 at 11:31 am, George B said: Make it abundantly clear that any Republican leader that caves on gun control will lose to a primary challenger in 2014. Maybe conservatives can run informal online pre-primaries to select a single strong challenger in each race. Each voter pays $5 to vote, credit card security IDs the voter and helps determine geographic eligibility, and the winner of the pre-primary gets all the $5 donations for that race.
  55. Instead of trying to make a database of lawful gun owners who buy and sell guns sans dealer, how about a public database of criminals not allowed to buy guns and ammunition? I doubt that there is much overlap between normal private gun buyers and criminals, but why not let private gun sellers know who is not allowed to buy?
  56. On March 12, 2013 at 11:32 am, Bill said: When I joined them I explicitly stated that I joined because they started showing some spine.
  57. If they cave on this, it’s over. Because they’re no longer a net good.
  58. Since joining, I’ve noticed a steady stream of advertising coming from the NRA to email and snail mail. “Join this group, pay for this thing.” It’s like dealing with credit card companies all over again.
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Monday, March 11, 2013

New York State Conservation Council 2013 meeting

New York State Conservation Council

March 2, 2013
The 2013 Legislative meeting of the NYSCC was called to order at 9:05am by President Charles Parker at the Herkimer County Community College. This was followed by the pledge of allegiance. A review of the days schedule was in order prior to jumping into the main order of business which was the review of pending New York State legislation. There were 40 members and 4 guests in attendance.
Bob Brown commented that he would like the group to address the License restructuring as a priority as this has a more immediate impact than the legislative bills we will be reviewing. The president recognized the request and would like to hold our discussion after we have seen a presentation from the DEC Region 6 Director who will be on the agenda today.

As we began to discuss the first bill, many wanted to hear what the Legislative committee comments on each bill had to offer before voting. Some comments had reportedly been sent to the council office but were not available at the time of our meeting. The Legislative Committee members that were present convened at the front of the auditorium and began offering a position on each of the bills as we went through them. Bills were presented for discussion and vote and if clarifications were required, portions of the bill text were read. At 10:50 the group took a 10 minute break.
Kevin Bruin who is the Assistant Council for the NY State Police provided a slide show on the provisions of the NYS SAFE Act. Kevin provided his background before working with the State Police and currently focuses on Complex Criminal support and weapon law cases. Kevin provided information that broke the new law into the major components which were;
· Assault weapons – New definitions which were molded after the Brady bill
· Large Capacity Magazines
· Ammunition sales
· Background checks on private sales
· Renewal of Firearms Licenses
· Statewide Database
The assembled group had many questions on all aspects of the new law and Kevin could only answer based upon what he reads in the current law. Questions on what qualifies as an assault weapon were flying fast and furious and it all starts with the basic question of “Is it a semi-automatic”, and “does it have a detachable magazine”. If those are yes answers and it has one of the distinguishing features stated in the new law it probably will be classified as an assault weapon.
To make it more interesting there will now be two classifications of “pre-ban”. Guns manufactured before 1960 are considered “curios” and need not be modified and are exempted by the new law but they do need to be registered. Both the gun and the magazine for these needs to be registered but not modified to the 7 round requirements. Interesting note; the M1 Garrand en-bloc clip is not considered a detachable magazine because of the manner in which it is loaded through the receiver. The M1 Carbine however does have a true detachable magazine which would require them to be registered. When we talk about modification of the old pre-ban period magazines (1960-1994) these need to be modified so as not readily changed in the field, and modifications should be considered “Gun-Smith” level modifications but need not be done by a gun-smith.
In regards to ammo, this “check” prior to purchase will be a state run system and not part of the NICS. Once ammo is purchased it can be given to other person to use but if “sold” would need to comply with the new regulations. Reloading components are not covered or restricted at this time.
More information can be found at
President Parker thanked Kevin and as he began introduction of Judy Drabicki the Region 6 DEC Director, a discussion ensued about the timeline of the new license restructuring plan. This has apparently been in the works for several months by CFAB and DEC and not originally intended to come up at this time. A request from personnel in the Governor’s circle asked for the details and wanted to put this on the fast track for inclusion to the governor’s budget bill. The intent was twofold, to simplify the process of purchasing a license with less confusion and secondly increase sales as a result. CFAB board voted to approve with the only abstaining vote by the Council. Howie Cushing felt that this action was premature, had not been vetted by the sportsman that are directly affected, and being rammed through for possible political gain.
We tabled the discussion and asked Judy Drabicki to speak on the topic. She said that this has been in the works for a while by direct request from the Governor when he had to go through the process of purchasing a fishing license. The three key changes would be that a fishing license would run one year from date of purchase, hunting license cycle would shift to September 1st, and many license types would be combined. It is part of the Budget Bill which has many facets to it and will most likely be passed. Questions were asked as to how the various old classifications could be tracked for data compiling, and it was not known the time. Asked if this was done to save costs and what those savings would be, and this was not known if there would be any “savings” but it was hoped that increased license sales would be a revenue generator.
Discussion ensued and while “restructuring” of the license system was the original intent, over time it evolved to “reduction” of the license system.
Bob Brown brought to light the point that part of the 2009 license fee increases, there were implied guarantees of services being kept the same and asked if there were any similar guarantees going forward with these changes. Most believed that this was another “feel good” legislation which was not asked for by the people who buy the licenses. We have fish hatcheries needing major repairs and the money is there buy won’t be released. This change which is part of the entire e-license project will cost us about $6.2 million from the conservation fund which could be put to better use in the field.
Dave Miller from the NYS Trappers Association took the floor and provided the trappers perspective of rolling the trapping license into the general hunting license. To his knowledge the organization was not contacted for their input to this proposed change. Trappers, who have a rich history in this country are losing their identity by being lumped into pile. Trappers did not ask for this and in general are more than willing to keep paying their way for maintaining their identity with a separate license. For years the trappers have supported other groups in their endeavors and ask for help now in maintaining their identity. Over the past 10 years there are over 10,000 trapping licenses sold and the regulations they have to follow show how dedicated they are to maintain their sport. Reduction of the non-resident license fees will now offer the opportunity for abuse from adjoining states. He points out that trapping is different than hunting yet the archery and muzzleloader identities remain intact within the general hunting structure. Dave asked for the Council’s support in maintaining the Trappers identity and not allow it to be included as part the new hunting license.
Bob Brown made a motion from the floor which was seconded by Eric Bratt, that the NYSCC go on record as opposing changes in the license fee proposal as written in the Governor’s Budget Bill. Discussion on the topic followed and some wondered if we should follow the CFAB lead and back the changes. Many felt that CFAB did not do us any favors by not doing any outreach and keeping this quite until the request from the Governor’s office. A hand vote was taken as a rough indication of the support and attendees were instructed to write in their vote at the end of the legislative bill list they would be handing in. It appeared to be fairly neutral with an even amount for and against the motion.
The floor was next taken by Assemblyman Marc Butler from the 118th Assembly District which includes Herkimer County and the Remington Arms factory. Marc voted to oppose the SAFE Act legislation not only for the content and infringement on the Second Amendment rights but also for the way it was pushed through under the cloak of “Message of necessity”. Most legislation follows a “Glacial” pace and goes through due process which this bill did not. This was an upstate vs downstate vote and as we have seen, is technically horrible. Some changes will come through in the form of the budget bill but complete repeal would almost impossible given the demographic makeup of the legislature. There are all kinds of questions not related to the firearms but on limits of liability for the mental health providers. We have seen 40 counties, the clerks associations and many others go on record as opposing this but the most effective thing we can do is wait for the legal process to shape. There is financial impact from this which will felt by gun owners and enforcement was never addressed. When writing to officials Marc said that all of the letters are viewed including the mass produced form letters but the handwritten letters get the most attention and review for content. We thanked Marc for his support of the sportsman and for attending today’s session.
With guest speakers on their way the group resumed the process of legislative bill review. Once this finished general discussion was on the floor and many wondered why the council had not generated a letter on their position in regards to the SAFE Act. While President Parker made note that we have statements on our web site and general policies for this in our policies and positions, we should also be cognizant of what else we need to get done and as this is a mainly a gun issue as opposed to a conservation issue we have let other organizations like the NYSRPA and SCOPE take the lead. Yes it directly affects us but we need not be a lead. It was agreed that after the meeting the Legislative Committee would meet with the President and draft a letter for publication on the Council’s position specifically on the SAFE ACT legislation.
Steve Owelko reported that all but 2 submitted resolutions were accepted and they have been notified and have time to resubmit prior to the Spring meeting. Structure of the resolutions could be better but are OK and should be out soon.
Upcoming dates;
· March 5th – Meeting with Deputy Secretary of the Environment
· March 8th – Meeting with DEC, CFAB, NYSCC on Access
· April 6th – Spring meeting at the Herkimer County Community College
· June 1st – Board of Directors Meeting
· September 20-22 – Fall Convention – Location to be announced
Fund Raising – The council needs to raise at least $14,000 above and beyond the normal dues and fees to remain in the black for the year. Thanks to Greene County for their generous support in helping fund the new computer system for the council office. The council also recently changed internet providers as well as phones to save money and increase reliability.
Meeting was adjourned at 3:38 PM
Respectfully submitted,
Eric Bratt
BPB note:

Eric Bratt is a past President of the NYS MuzzleLoaders Assn.

Monday, March 4, 2013

SCOPE Legislative alert~Firearms bills stricken

SCOPE Legislative Report - 2013 Firearms Bills Introduced

Search Results Count = 6

Run Date: 03/04/13 04:20 PM

Bill No.
S34 PERALTA -- Requires the judge in a criminal proceeding or in a family court proceeding, upon issuance of an order of protection to inquire as to the possession of a firearm
No same as
S50 PERALTA -- Requires the renewal of firearms licenses after five years outside the city of New York
Same as A 3295 Paulin
S63 PERALTA -- Authorizes a court to revoke the firearms license and seize the weapons of certain individuals
No same as
Pos: Support with Concerns POSITION: 2012 POSITION LAST SESSION: S670
S66 PERALTA -- Requires sale or transfer of certain firearms between unlicensed persons shall be conducted through a licensed firearms dealer
No same as
S69 PERALTA -- Relates to the suspension and revocation of firearms licenses upon the issuance of orders of protection
Same as A 754 Rosenthal
S117 PERALTA -- Requires a national instant criminal background check to be conducted on each individual who purchases ammunition
No same as

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