Wednesday, May 26, 2010

Moose River Plains Meeting Tues May 25th 2010 (Still Closed)

Moose River Plains Meeting Tues May 25th 2010 (Still Closed)

Bill Farber Hamilton County Board of Supervisors, John Frey Town Of Inlet Supervisor and Barry Hutchins Town Of Indian Lake Supervisor met with, The New York State DEC in Albany today to try and find a way to open the gates of the Moose River Plains Recreation Area.
Chris Demato, Rob Davies, and DEC Commissioner Peter Grannis, plus Assemblyman Marc Butler, Assemblywoman Teresa Sayward, Sen. Betty Little also gathered to participate in the meeting.
Mr. Grannis said that although this was not an easy decision, (Closing the Moose River Plains) they understand the pressure from organizations and federations to have a process move forward to have the gates open but this would require commitments from many different places.
Even though monetary amounts were discussed for infrastructure, the town and county representatives kept the focus on in kind service of fuel, trucking & staff with shared services. The TRP to fix the road was discussed and will move forward but to have the road open by Memorial Day weekend would be difficult. A working structure with a frame work for road repair and stewardship was discussed at length. Mr. Farber stressed the need for a mentoring program of at least one assistant ranger to help us open up oversight that was previously done by the Assistant Ranger Program. Rob Davies in the DEC discussed what that could look like. The Towns and Counties representative’s pledged to move forward in cooperation on the stewardship mentoring program for the area.
Mr. Frey “Wants to thank all of the various organizations who helped us get to the table with DEC to move forward with a solution”.
At this Time the Moose River Plains Remains Closed, and your support is still needed.
Thank You
Mitch Lee

Inlet Information Office Adele Burnett, Tourism Director PO Box 266 Inlet, NY 13360
Events: 1-866-GoInlet 315-357-5501 fax: 315-357-3570

Thursday, May 20, 2010

H$U$ talks a good game on helping hunting groups and the government.

Here we go a reply to the sportsmen of WI. who have complained about the HSUS/DNR wildlife-don't touch adds.
My GOD according to the H$U$ they just jump right in and help all these hunting groups.
Most of the time the HSUS operative are violating a law when they do the undercover work or jump in and take the lead as an enforcement agency. The H$U$ is nothing more than a non-profit like ACORN was, self promotion and show me the money.


Madison(WQOW)- The Humane Society of the United States responds to recent criticism over a partnership with the DNR in a public service announcement.

The reaction is as follows: Some critics in the hunting community are short-sighted and guilty of extreme overreaction in criticizing The Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources for working with The Humane Society of the United States to educate the public about the illegal taking of wildlife. These are the same voices who falsely characterize our work and claim we should put more money into conservation efforts, yet they cry foul when we do just that. Their views are unreasonable and inaccurate.
No you're incorrect, our views are based on the H$U$ 50 years of history that tell us you are cherry picking your battles & chipping away at sportsmen's hunting opportunities.

The HSUS works with state and federal wildlife agencies and hunting groups to combat illegal poaching of wildlife, and we've offered over $190,000 through our rewards program to help crack down on wildlife crimes. We have donated robotic deer and other anti-poaching devices to law enforcement agencies, and we sponsor a team of rescued dogs who sniff out poachers with game wardens in California. Our Wildlife Land Trust program protects thousands of acres of wildlife habitat in 37 states and eight foreign countries.
The H$US does not work with anyone till you have threaten,beat down,intimidated & finally file your law suits and force the states to deal with you.
The H$US & you're affiliates have secret meetings with DNR's to force them to allow you a voice at teh sportsmen's table.

Your wildlife trust program is a real estate land grab, bent on helping to decrease the avaliability of land for sportsmen.

When it comes to hunting issues, we work to curb the most inhumane abuses, and that's what has led us most recently to campaign vigorously against canned hunting, Internet hunting and fox and coyote penning — practices that The HSUS and many rank-and-file hunters agree are abusive and unacceptable.

My only hope is that Feld Entertainment takes you full bore into court and strips the H$U$ of your fortunes for all the ill you've done to the tax payers of this nation.

Tuesday, May 11, 2010

Albany Anti-Gun Legislation~What Failed to pass

Subject: Albany Anti-Gun Legislation

All these bills failed to make it out of Assembly Codes today:

A-3477, Increases the types of firearms that are to be included in
the firearm ballistic identification database

A-4431, Requires defendant's full cooperation with any law
enforcement officer or district attorney who is investigating or
prosecuting unlawful gun trafficking

A-5272, Prohibits the attendance of children under eighteen years of
age at gun shows or stores by classifying such attendance as
unlawfully dealing with a child

A-5368, Makes it illegal to sell component parts of a pistol or
firearm to any person who does not possess a valid pistol permit

A-5695, Enacts provisions relating to the trafficking of weapons and
for the firearm, rifle and shotgun ballistic identification bank

Friday, May 7, 2010

Moose River Plains Wild Forest

The road is rough,so what it's a wilderness area. The continued excuses by the DEC to close everything based on budget is BS. The state has funneled billions of dollars into not-for-profits over the years while sportsmen are tossed the scraps. As we all know the corruption coming from New York City politicians who have stolen millions to fund family members in shelter so called "do good groups" is continuing today as I write & post this letter.
One huge example of waste is the COBIS division of the NYS Police. This department is nothing but a $20 million dollar money pit & to my knowledge not one crime has been solved by collecting shell brass casings from pistols.

So, does this mean the NYSMLA will have to look for another Vous area and make arrangements before our October frolic?
I sure don't know. What I do know is the Town Of Ohio park was our home base for over 30 years and the local board priced us right out of the place. Now the MRP is not looking so inviting. I had spoke with the DEC region 5 reps and was suppose to have been alerted to any new happenings so lets see if I get some sort of official letter explaining if the NYSMLA will be able to host our event.
Patience is not one of my virtues.

For Immediate Release:
From : Mitch Lee, Adirondack Storyteller, Columnist, Tourism Town Of Inlet 315-357-5501

Closure of the Moose River Plains Wild Forest , one of New York States and America ’s largest primitive camping areas is shameful.
On May 6th I learned that the New York State DEC is planning to keep the gates at the Inlet and Cedar River entrances to the Moose River Plains Wild Forest closed for the summer of 2010. The reason given is that DEC feels with the current budget situation prevents them from properly maintaining the road.
This latest news on New York State 's decisions to limit access to this public Adirondack Park area follows a litany of sites across the state, both historic and recreational, that are slated for closure in 2010.

But this closure is unique because it affects not only the recreation of thousands of users for brook trout fishing, tent camping, hiking, backpacking, bird watching and mountain biking, it also dampens the local economy of two communities that depend on the eco-tourism that so many people go to "the Plains" for.
The Moose River Plains Wild Forest was created around a core of some 50,000 acres purchased from the Gould Paper Company in 1963 to be used as a primitive recreation area. 140 sites are available to primitive free camping along the 48 miles of hard-scape dirt roads that wind through the Plains.
Add to that more than 27 miles of trails that lead to hikers to beautiful remote ponds, some with primitive sites. The terrain varies from flat grassy plains filled with berry bush and beaver vly’s along the south branch of the Moose River to forested mountains with spectacular unspoiled views.

This from the DEC Web Site
“The Moose River Plains Wild Forest is bounded on the north by the Pigeon Lakes Wilderness Area, Raquette Lake and the Blue Ridge Wilderness, on the east and the south by the West Canada Lakes Wilderness and the private lands of the Adirondack League Club, and on the west by the Fulton Chain Lakes and State Route 28. It is the largest block of remote lands in the Adirondacks readily accessible by motor vehicle and includes the Red River, the South Branch of the Moose River and the 675 acre Cedar River Flow.

The Moose River Plains Wild Forest offers many recreational opportunities, including hiking, skiing, mountain biking, snowmobiling, canoeing, hunting, fishing, horseback riding, and primitive camping. Miles of marked trails and numerous lakes and ponds make this unit an ideal destination for recreationists with varied interests and abilities.”

Some of the best Adirondack brook trout fishing can be found at Ice house Pond & Squaw Lake and more good fishing is to be found at Lost, Helldiver, Mitchell, Sly & Whites pond as well. Beaver Lake , the largest body of water in the Moose River Plains, is one of the best mountain bike & camping destination rides in all of the Northeast. The five rivers that cut through the park have become home to a growing moose population. And great for a moose watch drive.

The Moose River Plains also hosts four major outdoor events, The Adirondack Birding Festival safari drives, National Trails Day scenic day hikes, the Black Fly Challenge Mountain Bike Race, and the NYS Muzzle Loaders Primitive Rendezvous. Some of these events have been a part of the Plains for decades and are important to the thousands of people as well as the economies of Inlet and Indian Lake .
The loss of use and access to these 50,000 acres would be a great sacrifice to so many visitors who are looking for a primitive experience like no other in New York and devastating to a local economy built on eco-tourism

Monday, May 3, 2010

NYS Conservational Council Spring Big Game report

Also published at

New York State Conservation Council
2010 Spring Meeting – Big Game Committee

The spring meeting of the Big Game Committee began with 18 people signed in.
Following introductions Gordon Batcheller from DEC provided an update of the Big Game status and plans for the department. A newly formatted report can be located on the intranet at (for deer)
(for bear)

As most people know, the deer harvest from 2009 was only slightly down (2%) from the previous season. The bear harvest on the other hand was well above the normal 5 year averages and is a reflection of expanding opportunities and healthy populations across the state. We are seeing the archery hunters take almost 50% of the harvest and as a result the strategies may have to be adjusted to prevent overharvest. With the expanding range and shrinking habitat, the number of conflicts is increasing. It could even create a multiple tag senerio in some areas. The real expansion concern is west and south of the Syracuse area where a study will be employed to define the management needs of this area.

DMAP was rumored to be in trouble as a program but its value is too great so the program will continue but in a different format. The change in focus will be the only visible changes with the report mechanism and the tags used, where the reporting responsibility will be with the permit holder. The tags will be a durable but less expensive type. This is designed to make the landowner more accountable to what is happening on his permit and land.

CWD – With 5 years now of no detected cases in the containment area, the regulation will be changing. The mandatory check will be removed but the statewide monitoring will continue. The DEC has the utmost confidence that they have prevented the spread from the original containment area and there is no current threat.

There is a proposal out for public comment concerning a new regulation which prevents the intentional feeding of bears. There is one exception which will allow for houndsmen that are training dogs. Please take the time to review the details and comment if you have a concern or can support this regulation change.

Money within the Conservation Fund is being closely controlled. Expenditures are scrutinized for non-personnel services which means staff will be less accessible for regional and local meetings of the various organizations. At this time they will not have a presence at the State Fair as it doesn’t generate that much money and most of the licenses sold would be purchased anyway at a different time. Fortunately there is quite a bit of federal money available from the various funds like Pittman-Roberston but these funds are very specific as to what they can be used for and the eligible activities. There are currently no less than 17 states being investigated for misappropriation of these funds. NY is not one of them and we would like to maintain that status. Unfortunately these funds cannot be used for educational purposes.

You will see that the future hunting guides will be less available for general handout. They will still be available for every licensee as well as on-line. This like everything else is an effort to reduce wasteful spending.

Last fall there were a series of public meetings put on by DEC to identify where they stood on certain issues, provide a report on the herd and get feedback from those attending to identify what the important issues were. This summer Cornell will be doing a survey based upon some of these issues identified as well as other items to get more details on the issues and choices which DEC will use to formulate a New Deer Management Plan for the Whitetail. There hasn’t been an actual published plan in years for the deer and it will provide a visionary goal 5 years out.

Hopefully the DEC will have a draft version ready for review at the Fall Convention. As part of this they will examine the harvest numbers and methods along with the consignment issue. In most cases there is unregulated harvest of does by the archery and muzzleloaders as they have an either tag in many instances. Obviously there are regional WMU differences and not all areas have the same issues. An option could see all does harvested by permit instead of unregulated taking. It is possible that a non archer can get a permit for an archery only area only to consign it over to someone else. This should be looked at to close the loophole. The one exception is that during the regular season an archery permit is not required to hunt with a bow.

Urban deer populations continue to be an issue and DEC is looking to allow more flexibility with the damage policies and utilize some more liberal management practices. Subdivision within current WMU’s was suggested or even the use of Crossbows for non traditional hunting applications.

Unfortunately the current law does not allow for the use of crossbows to take game. Regardless of where the crossbow may fit into the hunting seasons, the first step is to legalize it to take game. This could be a viable tool used under certain conditions but the law needs to be changed first to allow its use.

Gordon also stressed the issue of hunter recruitment should extend beyond the youth activity that we often target but include young adults and even middle age sportsmen (and women) should be included in our sights. Often sportsmen drop out of programs while they are building families and have higher priorities to deal with but when they get toward retirement age it may be a great opportunity to bring them back into the fold of outdoor activities.

One topic of discussion centered around creating laws which allow or restrict activities vs passing legislation which provides regulatory authority to a department like DEC. One such issue would be the discharge distance of a firearm or bow. Current legislation puts 500 ft as the minimum distance and while we have talked about lowing the legal discharge distance to 250 ft is that really appropriate in all situations? Given the problem of the Urban deer there may be instances where this should less than that to be effective. This would be an opportunity to change the legislation which would allow discharge distances to be regulated by the DEC. The Big Game committee will look at authoring a resolution which will address this issue.

Prior to beginning the march down resolution lane, Dan Owen provided a slide show presentation on the topic of Antler Restrictions. His presentation was aimed at the issue of “Manage or Mandate” and why mandatory AR’s should not be imposed. While many people voluntarily practice AR’s and DEC data shows that the percentage of yearling bucks being harvested is dropping some areas still believe that mandatory AR’s are needed and supported by their area. Some of the figures and quotes Dan used in his presentation were challenged but due to time constraints the discussion had to end so that resolutions could be handled. It was noted that this presentation was developed by Dan and did not represent a committee or regional position.

Big Game Committee Resolutions

While resolutions seek to change regulations or laws that govern our sport, many times the resolutions have basic flaws in how they are written. Groups need to do more research and provide more specific information. With all of the ECL’s available on the intranet, there should be little excuse for not having more details. One great resource is your regional DEC office. These folks would be more than willing to work groups or individuals on providing guidance and feedback on writing a more accurate resolution.

The following people/organizations who were designated as committee representatives voted on the resolutions before the committee;

Big Game Committee Archery Committee
Region 2 Martin McDonnell Region 5 Raymond McIntosh
Region 4 Wayne Gentile Region 7 John Huether
Region 5 Jami Whitney Region 8 Sam Selwood
Region 6 James Edic NY Field Archers Wayne Radley
Region 7 Jim Rodman
Region 8 Joe Wolak
Region 9 Rich Davenport
NYSMLA Eric Bratt
NY Houndsmen Dan Owen
NYS Deer & Elk Farmers Les Armstrong

1. Tompkins County – Wanton Waste – While the intent of this new law would be commendable, the issue of how to determine “every effort” was taken could be an issue with law enforcement officials. On DMAP it is already in the guidelines that every effort be taken, but there is no law stating that. Votes: 6 Support/7 oppose/1 abstain

2. Wyoming County – Rifle Use – There is already a bill in the legislature for this addition to the list of counties that have allowed rifle use in the traditional shotgun areas (S7210)
Votes: 14 Support/0 opposed

3. Chautaqua County – Rifle Use – While in general the committee and the Council support expanded opportunities for rifle use the specification of .243 caliber does not conform to the current state regulation. There was also discussion on the boarder line and the US rte 20 vs NYS Rte 20 designation. There are also 4 bills in the legislature regarding this change. We recommend that the submitters change the caliber designation to match current laws and the boundaries mention be clarified. While the Council can support an initiative like this, the local communities and authorities are really the ones that need to push this legislation. Based upon the format that this was written the votes were ; Votes – 3 support/10 opposed/ 1 abstain

4. Niagra County – Rifles w/ pistol cartridge - While most of those in the committee agreed with the premise that the “traditional” pistol cartridges have no more range than the modern shotgun range and that there are current pistols which use “traditional” rifle cartridges, there are no legal definitions of what caliber/cartridge defines rifle vs pistol. This would become a very huge enforcement issue and based upon that fact the votes were: 0 support/14 opposed

5. Erie County – Extended Late Muzzleloader & Archery season – In general we are always looking at expanding opportunities, there are several problems with this resolution. This resolution does not specify northern or southern zone. While some areas of the state could tolerate an extended season some areas can’t withstand taking more. Additional concerns over existing snowmobile agreements where they have agreed to not use the trails until the big game season ends could create issues between the groups. In addition states which were referenced as having extended seasons, have much shorter and limited seasons. Votes ; 2 support/11 opposed/1 abstain

6. Suffolk County – Youth Big Game weekend – While this deals with a specific issue and area, the Council as well as DEC has long supported additional opportunities for youth hunting. While the youth do have an opportunity to bow hunt on the weekends, it would be a great addition if they could have one weekend set aside to hunt with firearms This again delves into the issue of regulation vs law and if DEC was granted the regulatory authority it would be much easier. Votes ; 11 support/2 opposed/1 abstained.

7. Chemung County – Crossbow use – Probably the next most contentious issue after AR’s. Here again the law must be changed to first allow for the use of a crossbow for taking of game. Because this resolution asks specifically for its use during the special archery season, there are many opposed. Some also feel it is discriminatory to only allow use by seniors or disabled. There are no less than 8 current bill in the legislature looking to legalize the use of crossbows. The Councils current position is to support its use as a legal hunting implement. Votes: 3 support/ 10 opposed/1 abstain

8. Cattaraugus County – Bear Regulation change – While it appears that the history of this is targeted toward certain repeat offenders, the resources within DEC are not practical given the current economic position. The timeline which could be a safety issue of someone really in peril does not protect the individual for defending their person or property. DEC is aware of this issue and will work toward its resolve of the ethical vs legal practice that is taking place. Votes: 2 support/12 opposed

9. Delaware County – Oppose mandatory AR’s – Delaware’s resolution revolves around the issue of “home rule” where the organized sportsmen of an area should have the determination regarding issues such as AR’s. If other areas want to implement AR’s based upon their local support, then Delaware asks that for the same reasons the Council oppose any attempt to implement mandatory AR’s in 4O and 4P where the county organization is on record as opposing them. Votes; 7 support/3 oppose/ 4 abstain

10. QDMA – Progressive Strategies for YBP – 3A/4G/4P/4O/4R/4S/4W - One interesting point that QDMA does not include in their YBP (yearling buck protection) is the call for AR’s. They point out many of the benefits of protecting the yearlings like education and hunter support, there are many methods other than AR’s to achieve this goal. With current DEC reports of yearling harvest under 60% we are not far from that goal. Part of the opposition to this resolution is the fact that they include the Delaware County WMU’s 4O and 4P which are on record as opposing mandatory AR’s. Shortening of seasons, single buck tag and other alternatives could help achieve this goal. Votes; 5 support/6 oppose/3 abstain

11. Schoharie County – Alternative deer harvest w/local support– Specifically WMU 4G which is wholly contained in this county would like to see the Alternate harvest strategy implemented in this area because it has the support of the “Home rule” organizations in the county federation. They support programs which may include AR’s but did not specifically state it had to include AR’s. The issue that creeps into the conversation is that by DEC’s accounts, there are more hunters from outside some of these countis that use the area than those within. Because of this the “home rule” argument makes less sense for both those organizations for and against mandatory AR’s. Votes; 6 support/5 oppose/3 abstain

12. Nassua County - Alternative deer harvest w/local support– 3A/4G/4P/4O/4R/4S/4W – basically the same verbiage and areas but their proposal states it includes AR’s as part of the program. Interestingly enough, the submitting organization is not part of these listed areas. Same discussion points as #10 and #11. Votes; 5 support/7 oppose/2 abstain

13. Sullivan County - Alternative deer harvest w/local support– 3A – basically the same verbiage limited to WMU 3A and their proposal states it includes AR’s as part of the program. Votes; 5 support/7 opposed/ 2 abstain

14. Ulster County - Alternative deer harvest w/local support - basically the same verbiage limited to WMU 3A and their proposal states it includes AR’s as part of the program. They also want DEC to recognize any stake holder interest above 50% (simple majority) be the controlling percentage. Votes; 5 support/7 opposed/ 2 abstain

Greene County had two resolutions which did not make the official list due to unknown reasons but were read and briefly discussed. One is a general endorsement for AR’s with support of local organizations and economic interests while the other specifically targets WMU’s 3A/4S/4R. Greene county has a unique problem in that it is part of no less than 4 WMU’s. There was no vote taken on these resolutions.

Submitted by:
Eric Bratt Rep to the NYSCC